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Post by jarych on Jul 19, 2019 1:17:21 GMT
Full title of subject should be: Google Chrome, Windows 10, Norton Security, each block JB-created program in their own way.
(EDIT: Completing Post)-----
I created a package of a JB-created program, brought it to a different computer on Windows 10 and Norton Security. Upon unzipping and attempting to run the program,
first Windows stopped it, and I needed to tell Windows to allow it to run. Then Norton Security stopped it, and I had to tell Norton Security to allow the program to run.
Once that done, I could run the new program, any time desired.
One day, I revised the program, gave a new icon to the renamed jbrun2.exe, and upon trying to run the now updated program, again Windows 10 stopped it; I gave the allowance to run
and then Norton again stopped it, and I gave Norton permission for it to run. Now again the JB-created program runs on that computer, with no problems. Whenever wanted.
One more revison to that JB made package; JUST the new TKN file. I tried to download the TKN file as a way to get the file to the particular Windows 10 computer.
This time, Google Chrome stopped the download calling it "Malicious". The icon along with this notification although Google CHROME said the download was being stopped,showed a Norton icon;
but no actual NORTON notifications; Chrome was telling me this. I WAS able to put this TKN into a ZIPPED file, and then downloaded it that way, and found no further problem, not even after unzipping and test running the newly revised TKN.
So far no further trouble found - but maybe next time another revision, all of this W10 & Norton stoppage may likely happen again.
Some kind of coordination needs to be arranged between Shoptalk System and GoogleChrome/Windows10/NortonSecurity.
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Post by Rod on Jul 19, 2019 7:30:10 GMT
There is a methodology to follow in Windows when installing a new program on Windows. An installer package will handle most of this for you. It will also respect the folder system you should use. System files in Program Files directory and user amendable files in %appdata% It also creates a manifest and escalates permissions when required. All fairly complex stuff and brought on by the constant need to keep secure from malicious code.
Passing a .tkn based .exe program is not meant to offer this level of security it is meant to allow folks that trust you to load and run your program. Mostly we all just share the .bas
Shoptalk Systems could not validate all of the programs that are shared, that's really your responsibility. If you want to distribute a commercial program you will need to use an installer package and perhaps purchase a digital signature, used by Windows to validate distributed files. Its really a windows issue and its no different creating an App for Apple, its all carefully controlled.
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Post by jarych on Jul 19, 2019 8:03:39 GMT
... Shoptalk Systems could not validate all of the programs that are shared, that's really your responsibility. If you want to distribute a commercial program you will need to use an installer package and perhaps purchase a digital signature, used by Windows to validate distributed files. Its really a windows issue and its no different creating an App for Apple, its all carefully controlled. I do not know how to do most of that. At best, I simply know (now) that if I unzip a zipped package of JB-created program, the user needs to give Windows 10 and Norton Security permission to allow the program to run. In case a program revision is put into the package already existing on the target computer, new TKN or new icon in renamed jbrun2.exe, or new renamed exe, again user on target machine may need to give Windows and Norton permission to run the program for the new included or substituted files. I am not currently setting up installers for the particular program which I have been using. No need. Running portably all from a dedicated single application folder is enough for it. Hey; all I did was create the program, and create a zipped package of it, and bring it to a different computer to use on this 'different' computer. If at some later time, the user on the target computer wants to remove the program, all needing to be done is to delete one entire folder - simple removal process. No junk left behind. |
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Post by Rod on Jul 19, 2019 9:58:18 GMT
Yes, these small hurdles are not really standing in the way of our simple distribution technique.
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Post by carlgundel on Jul 22, 2019 15:41:41 GMT
This whole matter of security is annoying and troublesome, as you discovered. It gets worse every year.
The idea of a personal computer is being dissolved slowly away. Someone else gets to decide what software we run.
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Post by jarych on Jul 23, 2019 1:34:01 GMT
This whole matter of security is annoying and troublesome, as you discovered. It gets worse every year. The idea of a personal computer is being dissolved slowly away. Someone else gets to decide what software we run. I wonder if you can do or arrange something so that Windows, and some of the well-known security & protection products could let our programs run, without the user specifically giving Windows and the protection-security products permission to run them. As I stated, user can give permission when the obstacles happen, but if we make our programs distributable, other users when the program is stopped may not know that the program is safe, become suspicious , and then decide that our program is a risk, and then say, "the package or the program is a risk, so I will not keep this 'infected' program on my machine". |
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Post by Rod on Jul 23, 2019 8:18:20 GMT
www.softwarepublishercertificate.com/The above discusses the digital certificate that would be needed for each and every program a Just BASIC user wishes to share (without nag screens and questions). The costs listed are per annum. Given Just BASIC is free I don’t see how Carl could help. Given certification is a revenue earner it is unlikely to diminish. It is very likely to get more restrictive to force more revenue. That will be a sad day.
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ntech
Junior Member
Posts: 99
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Post by ntech on Jul 30, 2019 20:20:03 GMT
If you want to allow users of your program to install your program seamlessly, you should try Inno Setup. I love it, and I use it myself. (Partial) List of Features: - Support for every Windows release since 2006, including: Windows 10, Windows 10 on ARM, Windows Server 2016, Windows 8.1, Windows 8, Windows Server 2012, Windows 7, Windows Server 2008 R2, Windows Server 2008, and Windows Vista.
- Supports creation of a single EXE to install your program for easy online distribution. Disk spanning is also supported.
- Standard Windows wizard interface.
- Customizable setup types, e.g. Full, Minimal, Custom.
- Complete uninstall capabilities.
- Creation of shortcuts anywhere, including in the Start Menu and on the desktop.
- Support for digitally signed installs and uninstalls, including dual signing (SHA1 & SHA256).
- Silent install and uninstall.
- Tiny footprint: only about 1.3 mB overhead with all features included.
- All features are fully documented.
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ntech
Junior Member
Posts: 99
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Post by ntech on Jul 30, 2019 20:29:55 GMT
A sample .iss (configuration file) for a simple JustBasic program install would be:
; -- ExampleJB.iss --
; An example of a iss configuration file for a JustBasic program
[Setup]
AppName=My JustBasic Program
AppVersion=1.0
WizardStyle=modern
DefaultDirName={autopf}\My JustBasic Program
DefaultGroupName=My JustBasic Programs
UninstallDisplayIcon={app}\MyProg.exe
Compression=lzma2
SolidCompression=yes
OutputDir=userdocs:Inno Setup Examples Output
[Files]
Source: "MyProg.exe"; DestDir: "{app}"
Source: "VBAS31W.SLL"; DestDir: "{app}"
Source: "VGUI31W.SLL"; DestDir: "{app}"
Source: "VOFLR31W.SLL"; DestDir: "{app}"
Source: "VTHK31W.DLL"; DestDir: "{app}"
Source: "VTK1631W.DLL"; DestDir: "{app}"
Source: "VTK3231W.DLL"; DestDir: "{app}"
Source: "VVM31W.DLL"; DestDir: "{app}"
Source: "VVMT31W.DLL"; DestDir: "{app}"
Source: "Readme.txt"; DestDir: "{app}"; Flags: isreadme
[Icons]
Name: "{group}\My Program"; Filename: "{app}\MyProg.exe"
And then it would be all-ready to go.
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Post by jarych on Jul 31, 2019 2:05:01 GMT
ntech,
Interesting mention & description about Inno Setup.
Would that mean, that if I had formed my program package as an installer, that Windows AND Norton Security would have allowed both the INSTALLER and the renamed-jbrun2.exe and the TKN files to run?
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ntech
Junior Member
Posts: 99
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Post by ntech on Jul 31, 2019 16:13:36 GMT
jarych,
I've packaged my applications with Inno Setup and although I don't use Norton Security, the only warning I got was when I ran the installer was "The publisher could not be verified. Are you sure you want to run this software?" Of course, if you sign the package (which Inno Setup allows), then there won't be any warnings. Inno Setup configures the files that it installs with proper security permissions, which means that when they're run, no warnings are displayed.
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Post by jarych on Aug 4, 2022 19:06:56 GMT
Been three years that have passed. I do so much like zip packages and may want to learn to make SXF packages, but the discussions back three years ago could mean that I should learn to use an installer creator program, even for any simple applications one creates with Just BASIC or Liberty BASIC. Inno Setup might not be my choice. I played with a few freeware install makers, back many many years ago.
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